In my area of the UK we have to work under a fairly strict code of practice
with the Forestry Commission to ensure that what we do and the way we do it
is environmentally friendly and acceptable.

Indeed we have to refrain from letterboxing during the months of June and
October.
Furthermore there are certain defined areas where we can venture but not
have a box located.
Failure could mean the banning of this pursuit in any area controlled by
them.

I had wondered how long it would be before a subject such as this might come
to the fore in the USA.

Trying to negotiate with a whole host of bodies could be fraught with
difficulty/delay. However you have certain inalienable rights which would
also fall to be considered.

Good Luck!

Regards

Charles

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sheehan
To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com
Date: 20 May 1999 16:48
Subject: [L-USA] National Forest Service cooperation?


>Hi,
>
>I'm a new subscriber to this list. I apologize if this subject has been
addressed; I've gone to the archives, done a search, and found nothing, but
realize I may not have looked for the right keywords.
>
>What I wonder is whether anyone who's actively placing letterboxes has had
any run-ins, positive or negative, with the National Forest Service. The
area where I aim to place my boxes is under NFS control. It seems like the
right thing to do to get their permission before planting the boxes, but I
foresee red tape (e.g., at one extreme, being required to submit an
environmental impact statement for bureau and public review). I've got a
month or so before the snowpack melts, so I have time to consider
alternative approaches. What has worked? What hasn't?
>
>Thanks,
>
>-Mark
>
>
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>
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>


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Mark: Its good to see another from the NW. I'm assuming you're
from Missoula? Anyway, you ask a question that i was pondering too.
I have a call into a couple of relatives who work for the NFS and the
State Department of Natural Resources with that very question. I'll let
you know what they have to say. My guess is that they'll say fine as
long as the ground is not disturbed and the boxes are not situated in
some endangered species habitat. I'd bet they would balk at actual
"planting" of the boxes underground where shovels or the like would be
required, and would likewise have problems if any damage was done to
surrounding vegitation. Course this is all conjecture, so i'll quit
speculating and let you know what i find out. Its great to hear from
someone in Montana! Jim Price

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sheehan@montana.campuscwix.net writes:

> What I wonder is whether anyone who's actively placing letterboxes has had
> any run-ins, positive or negative, with the National Forest Service. The
area
> where I aim to place my boxes is under NFS control. It seems like the right
> thing to do to get their permission before planting the boxes, but I
foresee
> red tape...

Mark,
I also wish to welcome you to our growing clan of Northwest letterboxers.
Your concerns are worth discussing. A similar message was posed recently on
the California Contacts list (of which I am a member, despite the fact that I
live in Oregon).

I have placed several boxes on NFS lands. I agree with Thom that placing
your boxes responsibly is the key to avoiding problems with government
officials, whether national or local.

I also include my email address (and phone number) in my boxes. If there is
a problem with my boxes, I want to be the first to know. I also include
several copies of an info sheet that explains the whole letterboxing concept,
so that an accidental finder will at least understand what's going on. (This
info sheet can be found in the "Getting Started" section of the website.)
Fearing that by asking permission, I would be giving someone the opportunity
to say "NO", I must confess that I have placed my boxes without asking anyone
if it is okay.

My attitude is that before any officials can get upset about my boxes, they
will have to FIND them first!!! (They had better bring their compasses!!)
My boxes are well hidden, and can be accessed without having any impact on
native wildlife or vegetation. They are near established trails and do not
require you to trample any grass, moss, ferns, etc. to reach them. They are
under rocks and logs, or in natural cracks and fissures, so there is no need
to bring a shovel.

As long as we all take every precaution to practice responsible letterboxing,
I do not anticipate problems with the authorities. If you manage to get some
official word on the subject, however, I would be interested in hearing it.

Sincerely,
Mitch (a.k.a. "Der Mad Stamper")
Portland, OR

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At 02:15 PM 5/20/99 EDT, you wrote:

>My boxes are well hidden, and can be accessed without having any impact on
>native wildlife or vegetation. They are near established trails and do not
>require you to trample any grass, moss, ferns, etc. to reach them. They are
>under rocks and logs, or in natural cracks and fissures, so there is no need
>to bring a shovel.

Thanks, Mitch, this looks like really good info (i.e., precedent and promises) to take with me when I go talk to the district forest supervisor.

-Mark

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Letterboxr@aol.com wrote:
> My attitude is that before any officials can get upset about my
> boxes, they will have to FIND them first!!! (They had better
> bring their compasses!!)

I ask Mitch and all of you kindly to accept that we may need
permission in some cases to do what we are doing. If we're
advertising boxes in parks we all know they're there. If
public officials think we are some kind of renegades and do
not respect their authority they may pull the plug on what
we are doing. My tack was to contact them to get permission.
In the parks I used they did not write back to me but I think
its cool with them. Its good to ask. But in the very least
lets not make statements claiming that we do not need to ask
at all.

I'd also like to thank whoever it is who borught this issue
up again. We talked about it in the beginning and it was
never really fleshed out. I don't think it would be a bad
idea to talk about it again. Charles Merchant-White's
comments I thought were apropos: "Furthermore there are
certain defined areas where we can venture but not have a
box located. Failure could mean the banning of this pursuit
in any area controlled by them."

We are operating in many case under the auspice of the state
and national parks. Let's have the utmost respect for that.
That's the attitude we will need if we want to keep the hobby
going.

Thanks,
Dan Servatius (Dan'l)
St. Paul, MN
651.215.1292 (day)
651.457.2004 (eve)
651.296.3811 (fax)
mailto:elf@pclink.com

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